The purpose of the website should be explicitly stated on the home page. The only hint at the site’s purpose is the 'How many movies have you seen?' blurb, which is a very weak conveyance of the purpose of the site.
Put yourselves in the shoes of someone new to the site. Not EVERYONE is going to dig into the blogs and the other fine print at the bottom of the first page, including 'tour', 'FAQ', etc. People tend to like to skip the details and someone stumbling across the site will assume they can use it for whatever needs they have.
Putting the intent of the site on the home page is a friendly sign to newcomers as to the purpose of the site and will edge them in the right direction at the outset. Yes, you'll have trolls anyway but the folks who would have used this site against the creators' intentions but would have done so unintentionally will have some guidance at the outset.
LCWymer - With all due respect that remark seemed to be more or less aimed at you alone and not Erik and Piet. Futhermore Mrcarmady is the only person who insulted you. The rest just respectfully disagreed with your opinion, many before you even posted here. I do think you threated them rather unfairly.
I use ICM mainly to find recs. Though I do often try to complete lists and find the competative aspects fun.
I'm glad ICM are taking steps to remove obvious cheaters, but I do not wish some kind of witch hunt or constant questioning.
Cheaters are assholes, but there is no reason to take it all that personally or get worked up over it. There will always be jerks, lets just try to have as much fun with this page as possible.
the ankle biters that continue to yip-yip-yip on this comment board are making it difficult for any of us to use this very public board to provide our help and suggestions to Erik and Piet to fulfill their request to help identify cheaters.
Should this really be done on a public board anyway? You yourself said you've offered suggestions but won't share them publicly for fear of letting cheaters know. What should we be discussing besides how we feel about cheaters? Any concrete suggestions or denouncing of specifically suspected cheaters should be done privately.
LCWymer wrote:
All of this is their right to do because it is their website after all, so I sit in astonishment at people who ask to join and use their site – but then go on to attack Erik & Piet’s established purpose of the site, their policy,
I just reread all the comments and I don't see anyone deriding Erik and Piet for doing this or attacking them the site or the policy. Some people have expressed the opinion that they've learned to live with it and ignore it, but that doesn't equate to supporting the cheaters, it just means that as a user it doesn't seem there's much we can do besides not cheat ourselves. Getting upset and spending countless hours worrying about it isn't productive.
I also don't see what insulting other users achieves in this or any discussion.
We are going off-topic... they were asking us for help and suggestions on how to detect cheaters.
In my opinion we should also check if a user is on the top 5 of many "country" lists. It's hard to be an expert of norwegian movies (Amanda awards), Italian movies (100+1), mexican movies (Ariel)... at the same time! Maybe if he is from Norway and lives in Italy with a mexican girl, he could be able to be into all these cultures :)
The difference between this and poker is that cheaters advance themselves without lowering the number of movies watched by others.
But you've missed part of the competitive aspect of the site - cheaters don't lower the number of movies you've watched, but they DO lower your ranking in the Top Users list. And a lot of people have worked really hard to get there. I'm still way back in the early 1000s, but I can completely sympathize with those who've legitimately watched all those movies and who are angry at being pushed, for example, out of the top ten by cheats.
If it doesn't matter to you that people are ahead of you who have no right to be, and you're not interested in the competitive aspect of this site, then this blog post shouldn't matter to you. Maybe you should go back to watching films and stop criticising Erik and Piet for running the site that they created, the way they see fit.
As far as cheating goes, although I've seen a ton of flicks in my time, I'm not here to rub it in the faces of others or cheat my way up the ranked users list. That said, I've gone through all of the available lists (alphabetical and awards/institutions/etc.) and have checked everything that I can. It does kind of stink to be limited to what the site offers, knowing that I've seen so much more (hell, the non-Kitano Zatoichi films are 26 right there). Otherwise, I've gone about a week sometimes just because what I watch on a regular basis isn't in the system.
Hear that Erik and Piet - you are apparently being ridiculous about the importance of this whole thing, and for working hard to help correct the problem. I've certainly been shamed by MrCarmady's enlightened attitude. What a great world we'd be living in if we all not only turned a blind eye to people who cheat, steal, etc. - but (Most especially) ALSO ridiculed the people who were working towards trying to help keep the game clean and honest. If you want to ignore it, fine, that's your perogative. But your a jerk for ridiculing other people who do try to work to keep it clean and honest. I'd love to play poker with you because apparently it's ok to keep a couple of aces up my sleeve in your eyes, and I have the right to call you ridiculous for being upset about it. Oh, it's different because that's for money? Oh, ok. It'll be for matchsticks then, or "bragging rights!!!!" Then it'll be ok I suppose to cheat. I go back to my marathon analogy for MrCarmady - let's see how he would feel after running 26 miles only to see someone sitting at the finish line with the winner's trophy who took a taxi there.
Oh, COME. ON. The difference between this and poker is that cheaters advance themselves without lowering the number of movies watched by others. And unlike marathon, watching movies isn't hard work, and if it is for you, then why the hell do you do it? Go do something you enjoy.
Just wanted to say thank you for this post. This definitely needed to be addressed. For people not to care and just accept this, defeats the purpose of this site.
What makes me suspect cheating are meteoric rises in rank. A user who's currently in the top 20 passed me last week (I'm around #200) and has lately exhibited a pattern of checking around 50-100 movies per day, despite having been a member for some months now. Add to that the fact that this user has apparently seen a very large variety of films (#1 rank in both Amanda and FESPACO Awards) and I start going hmmmmm....
This is not to say that this user is necessarily a cheater. I know a guy who seems to have seen every movie ever made and can quote you lines from most of them. If he joined this site, he'd probably trigger every algorithmic alert system and have everyone yell "cheater".
Finding a balance can't be easy.
Should I care? Probably not. As chloecat says, the number of cheaters is probably low and in the end it's more about the satisfaction I experience when checking a movie I've watched and getting the occasional award, knowing that I earned it the honest way.
Do I care? Yeah, it bothers me, even if I'm not really here for the competitive aspect of the site (but mostly for the ease of keeping tabs on the lists). Even if I knew for sure that this user was a cheater and could mentally "count him/her out" I'd much prefer it if s/he wasn't here in the first place. So sue me.
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Comments 31 - 45 of 77
vnov
Nice one!Quantity is not quality!
sortile9io
By the way, how many accounts have been cancelled so far because of cheating?Fish_Beauty
The purpose of the website should be explicitly stated on the home page. The only hint at the site’s purpose is the 'How many movies have you seen?' blurb, which is a very weak conveyance of the purpose of the site.Put yourselves in the shoes of someone new to the site. Not EVERYONE is going to dig into the blogs and the other fine print at the bottom of the first page, including 'tour', 'FAQ', etc. People tend to like to skip the details and someone stumbling across the site will assume they can use it for whatever needs they have.
Putting the intent of the site on the home page is a friendly sign to newcomers as to the purpose of the site and will edge them in the right direction at the outset. Yes, you'll have trolls anyway but the folks who would have used this site against the creators' intentions but would have done so unintentionally will have some guidance at the outset.
Scottathon
If anything, all this whining is just going to result in the Streisand Effect.St. Gloede
LCWymer - With all due respect that remark seemed to be more or less aimed at you alone and not Erik and Piet. Futhermore Mrcarmady is the only person who insulted you. The rest just respectfully disagreed with your opinion, many before you even posted here. I do think you threated them rather unfairly.St. Gloede
I like Stefanati's and even more so minlshaw's idea. This site needs more lists : )Well ok, maybe it doesn't. But I do : )
St. Gloede
I use ICM mainly to find recs. Though I do often try to complete lists and find the competative aspects fun.I'm glad ICM are taking steps to remove obvious cheaters, but I do not wish some kind of witch hunt or constant questioning.
Cheaters are assholes, but there is no reason to take it all that personally or get worked up over it. There will always be jerks, lets just try to have as much fun with this page as possible.
PeacefulAnarchy
Should this really be done on a public board anyway? You yourself said you've offered suggestions but won't share them publicly for fear of letting cheaters know. What should we be discussing besides how we feel about cheaters? Any concrete suggestions or denouncing of specifically suspected cheaters should be done privately.
I just reread all the comments and I don't see anyone deriding Erik and Piet for doing this or attacking them the site or the policy. Some people have expressed the opinion that they've learned to live with it and ignore it, but that doesn't equate to supporting the cheaters, it just means that as a user it doesn't seem there's much we can do besides not cheat ourselves. Getting upset and spending countless hours worrying about it isn't productive.
I also don't see what insulting other users achieves in this or any discussion.
Stefanaki
We are going off-topic... they were asking us for help and suggestions on how to detect cheaters.In my opinion we should also check if a user is on the top 5 of many "country" lists. It's hard to be an expert of norwegian movies (Amanda awards), Italian movies (100+1), mexican movies (Ariel)... at the same time! Maybe if he is from Norway and lives in Italy with a mexican girl, he could be able to be into all these cultures :)
KatForsyth
Mrcarmady wrote:But you've missed part of the competitive aspect of the site - cheaters don't lower the number of movies you've watched, but they DO lower your ranking in the Top Users list. And a lot of people have worked really hard to get there. I'm still way back in the early 1000s, but I can completely sympathize with those who've legitimately watched all those movies and who are angry at being pushed, for example, out of the top ten by cheats.
If it doesn't matter to you that people are ahead of you who have no right to be, and you're not interested in the competitive aspect of this site, then this blog post shouldn't matter to you. Maybe you should go back to watching films and stop criticising Erik and Piet for running the site that they created, the way they see fit.
MrCarmady
LCWymer, maybe you should be working on your sarcasm skills instead of watching films.TheMadMovieMan
As far as cheating goes, although I've seen a ton of flicks in my time, I'm not here to rub it in the faces of others or cheat my way up the ranked users list. That said, I've gone through all of the available lists (alphabetical and awards/institutions/etc.) and have checked everything that I can. It does kind of stink to be limited to what the site offers, knowing that I've seen so much more (hell, the non-Kitano Zatoichi films are 26 right there). Otherwise, I've gone about a week sometimes just because what I watch on a regular basis isn't in the system.MrCarmady
Oh, COME. ON. The difference between this and poker is that cheaters advance themselves without lowering the number of movies watched by others. And unlike marathon, watching movies isn't hard work, and if it is for you, then why the hell do you do it? Go do something you enjoy.jerpijut
Just wanted to say thank you for this post. This definitely needed to be addressed. For people not to care and just accept this, defeats the purpose of this site.Knaldskalle
What makes me suspect cheating are meteoric rises in rank. A user who's currently in the top 20 passed me last week (I'm around #200) and has lately exhibited a pattern of checking around 50-100 movies per day, despite having been a member for some months now. Add to that the fact that this user has apparently seen a very large variety of films (#1 rank in both Amanda and FESPACO Awards) and I start going hmmmmm....This is not to say that this user is necessarily a cheater. I know a guy who seems to have seen every movie ever made and can quote you lines from most of them. If he joined this site, he'd probably trigger every algorithmic alert system and have everyone yell "cheater".
Finding a balance can't be easy.
Should I care? Probably not. As chloecat says, the number of cheaters is probably low and in the end it's more about the satisfaction I experience when checking a movie I've watched and getting the occasional award, knowing that I earned it the honest way.
Do I care? Yeah, it bothers me, even if I'm not really here for the competitive aspect of the site (but mostly for the ease of keeping tabs on the lists). Even if I knew for sure that this user was a cheater and could mentally "count him/her out" I'd much prefer it if s/he wasn't here in the first place. So sue me.
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